E3 2012

Dark_potato57 wrote:

That said, it is pretty hard to come up with original ideas. Alien invasion, for example, seems to be a good formula for games because they've been around since Space Invaders, and it doesn't look like people will ever stop making them. My point for this paragraph is that the central theme of a game does not necessarily have to be original.

Meh, fair enough.
I might as well talk about some of the positive aspects of the game.
Like, what about the Ice titan boss fight?

It has you climb about on a giant made of ice, where you have to avoid being shaken off and dodge it's attacks as you climb further and further, in an effort to get to it's only weakness, marked by a runed circle in it's head. When you finally make it, you are rewarded by seeing it falling forward bleeding from it's wound as you finish him off. Pretty cool, huh?



Oh wait, that sounds kinda farmilliar...

Spoiler:

Yes, current generation games are unoriginal. That's no reason not to like them or to brand them as bad games. They can still have an interesting storyline and great gameplay. That's what they're about. Storyline and gameplay. It bothers me that a few game developers leave these aspects out of the game as they are unimportant to them....Activision seems to do this a lot.

My xbox is gathering dust. I am with you on that Puking. I don't see how so many people get sucked into buying the same exact game every few months.

If you like taking down a giant colossus, would you be content with playing only the one colossus down taking game? Or would you like some variety in your favourite genre? Same with alien invasion. Would you like to play Halo for the rest of your days or would you want to mix it up with Resistance, Killzone, and Mass Effect?

I think I've hit my original point right on the head this time. One game of each theme will get boring very quickly. What if the colossus down taking game wasn't that great? The controls were terrible? Another game could do it right. That's what every incarnation of every game theme strives to do when others can't.

Dark_potato57 wrote:

What if the colossus down taking game wasn't that great? The controls were terrible? Another game could do it right. That's what every incarnation of every game theme strives to do when others can't.

I'm sorry, but I'm not letting that statment slide.

Normally I wouldn't have been so harsh on a game being this unoriginal if they copied the fun gameplay too. However, Castlevania doesn't do this. Not only does it copy
Shadow of the Colossus right down to the end cutscene, it does it badly.
Here's what goes on during both boss fights:

Shadow of the Colossus
Navigate up the body of the colossus by pushing the analog stick, trying to find a way up Assassin's Creed style. At certain times you must hold a certain indicated button to avoid being shaken off. The gameplay is ingaging and unpredictable.

Castlevania: Lords of Shadow
Keep pushing analog stick right to climb up the ice giant. Hold A at times to avoid being shaken off. at nearly unpredictable times, the ice giant reaches back and flicks you off, forcing you to start all over again. Gameplay is tedious and, at some points, frustrating.

So, really, if you're going to steal gameplay ideas, at least do it right.

I think you have let it slide, because I don't feel like you've opposed my point at all there. You've sort of proved it in that some games can pull off a good theme while others ruin it, in this case the colossus games.

Perhaps I should have pointed out that I only used the colossus theme as a relevant example in my explanation, but not to say that the latter of the two games (that is, Castlevania) improved on what Shadow of the Colossus pulled off quite nicely. I was merely saying that a game could improve on another of the same genre.

So essentially, my explanation gave the impression that I thought Castlevania improved on Shadow of the Colossus because it pointed out that games that copy others can generally improve. That's not the case. I didn't even pay heed to which order they came in, they were just a relevant example.

Dark_potato57 wrote:

I think you have let it slide, because I don't feel like you've opposed my point at all there. You've sort of proved it in that some games can pull off a good theme while others ruin it, in this case the colossus games.

Uh, dude?

I'm only here to talk about Castlevania. I'm not too sure why you're expecting me to disprove your point on how others games can improve genres and the like. But if you insist...

Dark_potato57 wrote:

So essentially, my explanation gave the impression that I thought Castlevania improved on Shadow of the Colossus because it pointed out that games that copy others can generally improve. That's not the case. I didn't even pay heed to which order they came in, they were just a relevant example.

There's a problem here, though. The Colossus climbing aspect was what made the game unique. Even if it was a bad game, and Castlevania perfomed it better, it'd still be considered a Colossus clone, as it's basically stealing SotC's main theme.
And before you try and disprove this, here's another example.

Fortresscraft.


This game has better graphics, it's downloadable to consoles and, according to it's developer, it's based more on creativity and interaction between peers instead of survival, so it's obviously better.
That excuses it from being a complete minecraft clone, right?
Riiiiiiiight??

I'm getting mixed messages here. I don't know about you, but "I'm sorry, but I'm not letting that statement slide" can only be interpreted in one way and that way is that you disagree with something I've said. What were you trying to say when you posted that sentence, if not that you disagree?

My previous post consisted on a simple observation about the argument you put forward and a bunch of very generic statements explaining what I thought the problem was, the problem being that you seemed to take my post as an indication as to which game I think is better, a subject in which I have little to no interest. How you managed to take that submissive, almost apologetic explanation of what I said as some sort of challenge goes way over my head.

Another mixed message: earlier you compared the two games and made SotC out as the poor rip off of Castlevania. That's all well and good, until you compare the games again and make Castlevania out as the more irritating of the two games. And then, I don't know how to put this.

Kitty wrote:

The Colossus climbing aspect was what made the game unique. Even if it was a bad game, and Castlevania performed it better, it'd still be considered a Colossus clone, as it's basically stealing SotC's main theme.

What. I don't even know which game you're referring to at first, but you then make the point that Castlevania, even though it's a thieving clone of SotC, does the colossus climbing aspect better. You mentioned earlier that it was more irritating and frustrating.

Kitty wrote:

Normally I wouldn't have been so harsh on a game being this unoriginal if they copied the fun gameplay too. However, Castlevania doesn't do this. Not only does it copy
Shadow of the Colossus right down to the end cutscene, it does it badly.

So which of the two games do you think is in the wrong? SotC for being a rip off of Castlevania as you pointed out in you post with videos, Castlevania for being irritating and unpredictable in your post where you compare the gameplay, SotC because Castlevania performs better than it, or Castlevania because it stole SotC's main theme and copied it badly?

My original point was that games within the same genre generally improve on their predecessors, clone or no clone. Have I been wrong so far? Castlevania, on the majority, has been made out as the better of two games, and it came out five whole years after SotC.

Where did the dispute come from?

I know you guys are busy arguing about stuff and all but I just can't wait to get the new Forza game.

Thank you, that is all.

@Potato: I can understand that the wording might throw you off a bit, but I'm pretty sure what Kitty is trying to say is that, in every case, Shadow of the Colossus is the better of the two.

Me, I've not played any Castlevania, and can therefore say only that it would be very difficult to exceed the level of gameplay refinement achieved by Shadow of the Colossus. Anyone who has not played that game should either go buy the PS3 re-release or start digging through pre-owned PS2 games now to find a copy. After seven years, it still goes for 20 GBP on the PS2.


I had a bit of a sift through the E3 site earlier this week; the only thing that caught my eye was Tomb Raider Crossroads. I really like the idea: showing the protagonist's growth from a vulnerable creature into the Lara Croft of every other game in the franchise via a trip through hell, but God help me I can see her voice acting getting irritating.

Holy crap

Did you just disregard the entire point of my post (including evidence of your theory being incorrect) in favor of how I worded one sentence?


Are you even freaking TRYING to make a decent argument, or are you just trying to be funny?

I think this discussion has become rather tangled, best try not to let it collapse into flaming.

Delta wrote:

best try not to let it collapse into flaming.

I'm honest trying my best to resist the urge to flame anyone.

In fact I'm not even sure why I'm still arguing here, this could've ended ages ago.

I'm sorry. That whole thing was my mistake.

I screwed up, and I'm really embarrassed. All over grammar I based my only argument and it blew up in my face. You win Kitty. Isn't that what you wanted? To win?

Hope you enjoy it, I don't. Thanks.

Oh. And Halo 4 looks interesting as well.

Since I'm a bit of a sucker for lego games, I gotta say I'm excited by the plethora that Ttgames showed off. It's also nice to see them pushing their formula past what they've been used to working with. Lego LotR looks to be the most similar to what they've done before, with smaller open-world sequences. However, I think it will be interesting to see how well integrating voices into the lego universe will work.

For those who don't know, characters in lego games typically "speak" in a system of head wobbles and indistinct mumbles, maybe a scream or two here. All three new lego games promise actual voice acting, something that will certainly fit in Lego LotR.

The other two Lego games are Lego Batman 2 and Lego City Undercover. The cool thing about both these games is that they are TRUE open-world games, instead of, as I mentioned before, smaller open-world sequences. Both look fun, with the latter looking like a sort of reverse GTA, something I'm surprised Lego was okay with.

Aside from lego games, Watch Dogs looked pretty cool to me, as did a Star Wars 1313. Not sure anything else stood out, but there is still some time left to watch for new games.

Oh please oh please, Valve, make a surprise appearance...

Yeah, I'm a fan of the LEGO games too. I knew Batman 2 and LotR was coming out, but not Undercover. I'ma have to check the site out for that one.

I'm mostly excited about Planetside 2... It looks awesome, and best of all, it'll be free to play!
Also, actual voices in a lego game? O.o Blasphemy!

DRaGO wrote:

Since I'm a bit of a sucker for lego games, I gotta say I'm excited by the plethora that Ttgames showed off. It's also nice to see them pushing their formula past what they've been used to working with. Lego LotR looks to be the most similar to what they've done before, with smaller open-world sequences. However, I think it will be interesting to see how well integrating voices into the lego universe will work.

For those who don't know, characters in lego games typically "speak" in a system of head wobbles and indistinct mumbles, maybe a scream or two here. All three new lego games promise actual voice acting, something that will certainly fit in Lego LotR.

The other two Lego games are Lego Batman 2 and Lego City Undercover. The cool thing about both these games is that they are TRUE open-world games, instead of, as I mentioned before, smaller open-world sequences. Both look fun, with the latter looking like a sort of reverse GTA, something I'm surprised Lego was okay with.

I'm the same! Myself and my sister love playing them though half the time, we have a little lego fight over who get's to build, dig, drive, etc. I was shocked when I saw the Lego LOTR trailer when I heard actual voices. I thought this was a joke but if they really do add them, they would be some heck of a lego game to have in the lego game collection. Asides from them, I'm a bit excited for Pikmen 3 and the new Skylander's Giants (Meh it's better then nothing ^^').

I personally love Naughty Dog and the games they've made. The AI in this game is astounding. None of it is scripted. Too bad I don't own a PS3...

The new star on E3. This looks amazing and seems to be pretty new thinking. At least about game play.
Reminds me a bit about Neuromancer.
But it will only be released for Xbox360 and PS3. But a man can dream...

This game looks....AMAZING. I'm very excited for this game. This looks like a good conclusion to the Halo series. Hopefully it will be.